Woo Hoo, first post.

Where's the snowman?

Why, we oughta nuke us!

Naomi,move out of the country then, since you're so in love with the rest of the world. If you don't appreciate being American, we don't want you. You don't have to like the president...but you at least have to support him. I thought Clinton was a greasy, misogynist slimebag...but I still stood behind him. And before you say it - No, I would not have supported Hitler.

"Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. . . . Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." (Hermann Goering, 1946)

PWNZ3D.

The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism

http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm

The idea that we should support our leaders no matter what is moronic. They are supposed to be our servants, not the other way around, so when they do bad things, we should let them know about it. America is supposed to be a country where people are praised for speaking out against the wrongs of the world, but since 9/11, anyone who has anything to say is "unpatriotic." If you support the notion that speaking out to better one's country is a sin, then maybe you should be the one to leave. I hear China has very nice weather this time of year.

Over It:

I happen to agree with your assessment of Bill Clinton. For all his personal faults, he was nonetheless a very good president. GWB, on the other hand, is generally regarded as a nice man and a good friend - someone with whom I would enjoy drinking beer and watching football. However, he has been resoundingly incompetant as a president. I'm seeing an awful lot of people who have trouble separating personality from job performance - who supported Bush only because he seems like such a good guy. Good guys don't always make good presidents. Usually, it's the real SOBs who do the best job.

And Naomi has encapsulated very well my real concern about this administration: Today's "neocons" sound a lot like yesterday's "fascists".

I am saddened to say that I feel quite strongly about the uncertainty behind this past election. Why is it that exit polls in Florida, Ohio, and New Mexico showed Kerry as the victor by a wide margin. Why is it that Bush won all three of those states by a significant margin. Why is it that the states that used paper ballots found a strong correlation between exit polls and final tallies, however, in several states (like those mentioned, but also pennsylvania, north carolina, and new hampshire, to name a few) saw dramatic differences in the final tallies, although it would not have affected the electoral college votes?

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388

Why is it that the day before Ohio decided on the manufacturer of the electronic voting machines Diebold (the winner of the contract) held a fundraiser in which he stated that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year?" (date of the news article... Aug 28, 2003)

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm

What saddens me the most is the large number of patriotic Americans who will blow this off because they don't want to consider the possibility. While I cannot remember who said this, a quote comes to mind: "The strongest dictatorship is a lazy democracy."

If there is a next time...

Have you submitted your apology to http://www.boldlygoingnowhere.net/se/ ?

Now you libs know how I felt with two terms of Clinton. Its not like he had a flawless administration, though the deficit elimination was a bright spot. If you need some consolation now Hillary can run without a problem in 2008. I would love to see her run against Colin Powell.

Clinton was no liberal. This is why we in the reality-based community get upset with Republicans - while claiming to be conservative, they attack Democrats even when they advance the conservative agenda.

Cases in point:

1. Clinton balanced the budget. Bush has racked up record deficits. Aren't conservatives supposed to be budget hawks?

2. Clinton passed NAFTA. Aren't conservatives supposed to be for free trade?

3. While Clinton was pro-choice, the number of abortions performed under his presidency dropped. Under the supposedly pro-life Bush, the number of abortions performed has increased. To those against abortion, which society would you rather live in, one where abortion was legal, but nobody actually gets one, or one in which abortion is illegal, but back-alley abortions are common?

4. Clinton actually followed the Powell Doctrine of overwhelming force followed by rapid exit after military victory. We went into Serbia, deposed Milosevic, followed international law and sent him to the World Court, held elections in Serbia, then got out with zero casualties. Bush ignores international law, brings us over 1100 casualties, and we're still stuck in Iraq. Aren't conservatives in favor of quick, decisive military action?

5. While welfare cheats have been a straw man for Republicans for decades, it was Clinton who actually passed welfare reform.

6. Clinton gave us the Freedom of Information act of 1996. Bush gave us the Patriot Act. Aren't conservatives supposed to be wary of Big Government?

I could go on and on, but the point is that if you are a true conservative, in the best sense of the word, vote for Democrats.

Hey, stop confusing the issue with facts! Truth and logic have no part in modern American politics - just ask Karl Rove.

If you don't like Clinton, you were welcome to complain. If you don't like Bush, "you have to support the president?" SINCE FUCKING WHEN?

Ever heard of the First Amendment? When did it get outlawed?

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=392&row=0

History may be repeating itself. I'll wait for more evidence to mount before I jump to conclusions, but this is worrisome news all the same.

Well said, Naomi. Well said.

I completely agree that Bush is stupid and the world would be better without him. He is making the United States a worse place to live in. Yes. But I already knew that. I want PerversionTracker to review bad software, not bad presidents.

Mole Whacker:

The problem in the article you cited was its assumption that exit-polling was accurate. An exit poll, like any poll, is a sampling of the larger pool of voters and has inherent statistical limitations. According to the Washington Post, for example, Karl Rove had his own independent exit polls going that showed Ohio and Florida going Republican. The published exit polls were based on early voters, so that the results could be sent to the networks before broadcast. It turns out that in many states, the voters who showed up later in the day were tilted toward Bush, which the early exit polls missed. Thus they overstated the Kerry support and inaccurately predicted the result.

It's a bit early to get paranoid. The vast majority of Republicans are straight arrows who would rather see their guy lose than win dishonestly. There are enough Donald Segretti (of Nixon's Plumber squad fame) types though, that it does pay to be suspicious.

A bit to early to get paraniod? The 2000 election was were it started for me.

As I said, I'm not jumping to any conclusions yet. But after what went down in 2000 in Florida, you'd best believe that I'm keeping my eyes and ears open as the evidence mounts one way or another.

Cochrane, you misunderstand. PvT is a the place where the Van Tols come to vent their rage. It is by pure chance that they are such a bunch of geeks that they usually target software.

The name Perversiontracker does not imply any kind of subset of perversions that will or should be tracked.

One could say the world is a perversion of the mind, as all of us flawed humans create our own worlds based on our hopelessly incomplete network of experiences that we call reality. To quote someone I can't remember: "Everything you know is wrong."

Therefore, take blog content for what it is. PvT is not here to comply to your or anyone else's concept of what it should be. Let it be a perversion of itself. Let Chaos reign. And get me out of this straightjacket!

Translation for AOL users: U=TEH SUK.BRITNI PIXX!

Personally, I think we should talk about cheese.

I'd like a room-temperature Perano. Or perhaps a nice cave-aged Gruyerre.

Of course, I can't afford them because our current deficits and foreign trade balance has caused the dollar to plunge to record lows against the euro, but I still like to think about them.

Ummm... Cheese!

Pics Plz! XD

america is going down the drain...
and you'll be watching first row...
just look at your country's deficit...
whos going to pay for that??
not the poor people on skidrow...
not the rich in beverly hills
but the workin' middle class...

Uncertain:

Karl Rove's "exit polls" showed buddy Bush winning? Well drop everything! That proves all those liberals wrong!

There WAS fraud in the election. The real question is: are we willing to admit it?

Uncertain:

Exit polls have been considered THE leading way to determine the validity of elections around the world. When the voters leave the booth, say they voted for Candidate A, and have their votes recorded for Candidate B, the election is invalid. You are correct that exit polls sample a small group of people, but the way polls work this is a highly representative view on the election results. So accurate, in fact, that states with paper ballots were all within 0.1% of their exit polls, while states with electronic voting were (an average of) 5% off, always in favor of Bush. This kind of serious discrepancy should be a major issue to all Americans.

I agree with the statement that the vast majority of Republicans are straight arrows and would rather lose the election than win it unfairly. The vast majority of Democrats feel the same. The issue is that their is a mountain of evidence, supported by hand-counts from the 2000 Florida election, that Bush did not win in 2000 and may not have won in 2004, but is President anyway. Add that to one of the most radical administrations (note: not conservative!) in recent history, and a lot of people are pretty upset.

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President."
- President Theodore Roosevelt

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
- President Thomas Jefferson

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his (or her) country from the government.
- Thomas Paine

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
- Samuel Adams

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (and women) to do nothing."
- Edmund Burke

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce and brave man (woman), hated and scorned. When his (her) cause succeeds however, the timid join him (her), for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
- 'Mark Twain'

Unlike Bush, Cheney, Rove, Ashcroft, Limbaugh, ad infinitum I served in the armed forces.
-Badger

My point:

As Carl Sagan was wont to say, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

I can't accuse one of my students of cheating on an exam just because he did better on it than I expected him to. I must have some kind of concrete evidence.

The fact that the exit polling did not match the actual vote does not in and of itself show that the election was rigged. Most elections are so lop-sided that exit polls being off by a couple percent isn't noticed. The results of this election would be sufficient in my mind to merit some behind-the-scenes research into the electronic voting to find the truth. Only then would I start throwing around felony-level accusations. It seems much more likely to me that the polling was flawed than the vote counting. "Possibility" is not the same as "probability".

I'll drop the subject here. No point in a flamewar erupting over this. Besides, in my politics, disagreement is a good thing. Open minds and individual opinions help everyone.

p.s. Good quotes, Badger!

Naomi:
Please don't apologize for something you didn't do. I am sure you did all to support all that you consider the best thing to do on Nov. 2nd.

All:
What is it with patriotism? National states aren't thatold, and it is an artificial construct. Why is it that people are proud of their country, when theydo not even know their 8 neighbors - they aren't proud of their house, but oh! the nation!
A new abstract super-ego that tells what's right, just and fair although this differs considerably from one person to the next. Speaking of myself, I never stand behind my government, sometimes vote for the lesser evil, but do something to enforce my own interests and the ones I consider the needs most of the people would agree with. I get into arguments, of course, and I like most of them because this fortifies my positions or changes them.
I don't know whether I would put all my faith and trust into Kerry, for he sucks, too, as I did in my own elections 2 years ago.

Some:
The good old "what would you do if Hitler..." question. Ah! Whenever pseudo-fashists, religious or political, are doing a rally, speech or whatever in my area, I stand against them. So at least their right of speech has to be protected by a huge squadron of cops, which makes them less accessible. Then we make fun of them. That usually works. Try this at home!

Naomi:
Please don't apologize for something you didn't do. I am sure you did all to support all that you consider the best thing to do on Nov. 2nd.

All:
What is it with patriotism? National states aren't thatold, and it is an artificial construct. Why is it that people are proud of their country, when theydo not even know their 8 neighbors - they aren't proud of their house, but oh! the nation!
A new abstract super-ego that tells what's right, just and fair although this differs considerably from one person to the next. Speaking of myself, I never stand behind my government, sometimes vote for the lesser evil, but do something to enforce my own interests and the ones I consider the needs most of the people would agree with. I get into arguments, of course, and I like most of them because this fortifies my positions or changes them.
I don't know whether I would put all my faith and trust into Kerry, for he sucks, too, as I did in my own elections 2 years ago.

Some:
The good old "what would you do if Hitler..." question. Ah! Whenever pseudo-fashists, religious or political, are doing a rally, speech or whatever in my area, I stand against them. So at least their right of speech has to be protected by a huge squadron of cops, which makes them less accessible. Then we make fun of them. That usually works. Try this at home!

*choking on a pretzel*
*takes a drik of water*
*pause for dramatic effect*
"Ahem, four more years!!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaha!!!"

America is in need of a massive enima. I suggest we start in the south.

http://www.boldlygoingnowhere.net/se/ is an older version. The current site is at http://www.sorryeverybody.com

My own submission: http://kreativekorp.cjb.net/zeta/sorry.html

My only hope is that things will get better.

*twitches*

First, it's e-n-e-m-a.

Second, it's c-o-l-o-s-t-o-m-y.

Third, how much longer will we have to be tempted by Naomi's sultry pout at the top of the front page? What's a sinner to do?

The only thing I want to say is it's not time to jump to conclusions. It's true that exit polls being off by a percentage point or two shouldn't cause any concern ... it's a SAMPLE of the electorate, not another election itself.

Some say that the exit polls were taken when the Dem's were at the polls, apparently the Republicans went to vote earlier (or later) in the day. Fine, I can accept this. It sounds reasonable.

But in the end, if anyone has any conclusive evidence that this last election was rigged (it's too late for the 2000 election; the damage has already been done!), I pray they make it resoundingly public. If that's the case, Bush should be impeached, tried for elections fraud (and lying ... and treason ... and murder ... and war crimes ... and ...) and put to death in the electric chair. Period.

If there is no evidence, then there isn't anything to talk about right? We did this ourselves. We'll need to clean up this mess in about 4 years, assuming Bush doesn't make a constitutional admendment to ban elections (wouldn't surprise me much with his "war on the Constitution"). And I'll apologize for calling for Bush's death, even though it's currently protected under the Free Speech stuff in that document that Bush is warring against.

'Nuff said.

By the way Naomi, I don't think I've been priveledged to see your picture before (maybe as a group thing from across the room, but nothing identifible). You'd look really cute if you weren't apologizing to the world ...

;-)

Let the flames begin ... where's my racing fuel ... oh yeah, I already threw that into the fire ...

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=393&row=0

The evidence continues to mount. I hope that they can get some hard numbers out of this before too long to see just how many votes Kerry actually got in Ohio.

as a non-voter (my reason being the government prevents me from doing so before my 18th birthday which unfortunately is exactly 5 months, 2 weeks too late), i also pout my lips and hang my head. "every vote counts" my eye!! can i see a little bit more democracy please? we seemed to have been challenging a number of wedge issues (abortion, gay marriage, stem-cell research... yada yada) during the campaigns to fit in the constitution which says, and i quote,
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
given this was written more than 100 years before i was born, and a group of americans feel that we should "update" it, it is what we have, and "live by." and with that i prepose the question: how about gwb? could he not be seen as a wedge issue, himself? has he established justice? ensured domestic tranquility? PROmoted general welfare?
the answer? niet.

Do we all really give a shit who is in office? I am a non-voter also and believe that all presidents are big fat liers. All they do is get in office and take my money. The rich get off and I end up with less money. They all stand up there and it all sounds good...but I never get any help. I am a single dad and they don't have shit to help me. But if I were a single mom...then I could get help. Ya gotta love the goverment...

first post today

Mwah-hah-hah-hah!

Y'all ain't seen nuttin' yet.

Q: So why should you ask a Democrat for the time of day and not a Republican?

A: Because the Democrats just got their clocks cleaned.

Time to warm up the old wood chipper ... What the hell has gone wrong with this web site!? We need a good old fashion butt kicking bad program to chew on. None of this lame poetry and "Sorry world..." crap. If you want to suck the nipples of John Kerry, be my guest, butt let's stop this insane, dumb-ass, putrid, intolerable, fucking...OK, I just lost my mind here...did any you see where I put my frontal lobe? Now where was I? Obviously, I was here, but you dimwits seem to drift so easily into the mental masturbations that i just had mental orgasm. I think they call it an "idea!" OK, now let all of us beat a dead horse with a 2x4. I just love beating maggot ridden horse flesh with a 2x4. it makes me so...excuse me, did I just fart big time? You will never know since this is the first time my farts are masked by your stink!? Who would of thought it possible...Whoa is the shithead who does not stink...

...stream of thought brought to you by Norm O. Tidwell...source of endless pile of crap...

I have a big weiner!

I second Norm's motion.

(eyes self warily).

Enough of the political mewlings. Onto some bad software already!

(On the otherhand, it is called *Perversion* Tracker)

um..yea...I once used this really bad software...and..um...What’s the use? I just suck at bad software reviews. That’s why I come here in the first place. I need my sweet, sweet perversion tracker review. I got to get my fix man. Come on man, help a buddy out. Please! Please! I'll suck yo' dick fo' a bad software review. Please! Please! (Sobbing uncontrollably)

Wow!

I think this just might be the note that perversion tracker needs to go out on.

Yea, that just about caps it.

Check please!

I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't think anyone in the US should apologise for George W. Bush.

He's the sorriest son of a bitch who ever sat in the White House. Isn't that sorry enough?

All I know is that there is nothing more patriotic these days than to be disgusted by President Bush. It's embarassing for us US citizens who used to feel safe about our government's long-term plans regarding freedom.

Naiomi, when you give that anger look, you should try to *cheep!* *CHEEP!* like a baby chicken. That would be nice.

online gambling

online poker

texas holdem

party poker

poker games

online sportsbook betting